And the circumstances either balance out, or were against Luke. Either way, Maul vs Yoda or Mace will end faster than KFV vs … His potential was limited because of what happened on Mustafar but his actual power shouldn't be diminished when becoming Vader (Suit). Actually even in Legends( GL canon), Vader is said to be more powerful than he ever was, in the ROTJ novel. So... which one do we go by? Anakin also beats Vader in sabers, that much is true. Anakin may have had the potential to be more skilled but skill wise Vader has better showings. The Darth Vader of the movies started a fearsome legend, while the other medias worked to build upon it. Anakin High Ends all beat out Vaders high ends by miles when Anakin taps his potential. @americanspeeddemon: That was Vader's personal thoughts, much like him saying: "Anakin was weak so I destroyed him". @sirfizzwhizz: Actually... Vader entered Oneness when he killed Palpatine because plot and prophecy. Experience? (Image credit: Marvel Comics) Anakin Skywalker returns to Mustafar, the planet where his fateful duel with Obi-Wan Kenobi led to his transformation into Darth Vader – and … Even then I can dismiss the first feat with the "cathedral' as all cathedrals have specific weak points from engineering design due to the nature and stylistic effects of said cathedrals. Vader is stronger and tougher. Prime Anakin Skywalker (Invisible Hand) Round 1: Duel. Since Rosario Dawson's debut as former Jedi Togruta in The Mandalorian season 2, interest in the character has been at an all-time high with her history in the franchise now being revisited by long-time fans and learned by new ones. Feats-only is a rather poor way to judge things. Someone requested that I do a comparison between Anakin and Vader in Star Wars Battlefront II to see if there are any similarities in their move sets. He also has a main and recurring role in games, comics, books and the non-canon Star Wars Legends material. It appeared that Darth Maul had the upper hand, but before he … @shootingnova: legends anakin Anakin). This is a typical building explodes and "insert character" survives the destruction somehow feat. Anakin is same as Luke. Anakin believes that only he can rule the galaxy, and decides to confront The Emperor. He is faster, stronger, and more agile. Holistically speaking, it was always the intention for Vader to essentially be Anakin with less raw power, talent and skill. Said raw power is always there, it just takes time, practice and experience to tap into it. Throws back a large stone column, easily 30 tons area, and then blows Ventress through a very thick stone wall. Where is that shown again? Here it is.Comparing: walk animation, run animation, force jump, force dash, saber block, saber strike, ability 1, ability 2, ability 3, game play.Legendary Patreons:Mikyle MeyerIf you enjoy my content and want to support the channel, please consider donating through patreonhttps://www.patreon.com/CinematicapturesMusic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrYQKhao9L4 Legends has Anakin being the stronger of the two. Skill? Thor Odinson Anakin Skywalker. @sirfizzwhizz: Vader lost to Luke because he was conflicted and Luke got rage amped. In Legends, Anakin was more powerful. Force crushes weapons, objects, and throws around foes. However, in canon, it looks like it's shaping up to have Vader superior to Anakin in a clear cut fashion. Yeah, none of this even remotely begins to counter what I'm saying. In a duel, Vader's only edges would be knowledge on Anakin's form, which Kenobi and Dooku both had and it still didn't save them, and technical skill, which as Anakin demonstrates: isn't a problem for him. The first two trilogies in the mainline Star Wars saga — the ones that came from the mind of series creator George Lucas — each revolved around a key figure in the Skywalker bloodline. So how could losing a limb affect Force ability, then? Anakin moving over 100+ tons of Separatist Dreadnought ship into a path of missiles. Using the Star Wars Wiki for appearances. Dueling wise he incoperated all 7 forms. In Canon, it's stated Anakin had actually become more powerful after becoming Darth Vader (I suppose this is because the lost potential thing is no longer canon, as it was GL's statement/understanding, and not actually established in the films). Round 2: Force. I even debunk already several times some of Vaders BEST TK feats. Vader has fought and won more lightsaber battles, has more often and consistently exhibited superior Force feats and was an all-around better fighter than Anakin was. His far greater Force reserves directly correlate to him having superior innate talent, physical augmentation and -- through that, by extention -- skill. Now he meditated to sharpen the edges of his anger. Vader all rounds. Obviously this didn't actually happen. The best TK feats Vader does has is in Legends feats. These two are Vader's best quantifiable TK feats, and thats it. The mystery of Anakin’s father has finally been revealed. Talent? If there was no knowledge beforehand, Anakin would win. Followers. An episode of Star Wars: The Clone Wars season 3 has Anakin Skywalker turning to the dark side a year before becoming the Sith Lord Darth Vader in Star Wars: Episode III – Revenge of the Sith, and shows just why Mustafar was so important to his transformation.While Anakin becomes a Jedi again by the end of the episode, the circumstances of his brief fall from grace speak to the reasons … Show me Vader achieving Oneness just once. Darth Vader is a Dark Lord of the Sith and the apprentice of Emperor Palpatine, ruler of the Galactic Empire. Anakin Skywalker, also known as Darth Vader, is a major character in Star Wars Canon. Wiz: Getting a red Lightsaber for being evil, Vader was a very powerful Sith lord and had killed Luke's mentor Ben Kenobi during the fourth movie. Not to mention Vader is tactically ahead. Nevertheless, even if we go by feats, he is clearly superior to Anakin, and a large number of these feats are decades before said prime of Vader. If they're both bloodlusted, I'd favor Darth Vader. Speed wise he's matched very fast opponents such as Rotj Luke, and ahsoka. RELATED: Magneto Vs Darth Vader: Who Would Win? In-canon, Vader reflects on himself being superior in comparison to Anakin, and seems to be written that way, but it's not yet a set-in-stone fact. "Vader completed his meditation and opened his eyes. He should stomp honestly. Anakin. You can't possibly expect me to agree on your or any other debater's opinions every single time, that is just ludicrous. 2 Can't Beat: Darth Nihilus. Anakin was problably going to edge Vader out in a direct duel in the Legends continuity while in Canon Vader seems the overal better fighter. @lordofthelight: What am I supposed to do then? Yes, Vader was obviously a shell of his former self after being burnt, but that doesn't mean he couldn't compensate for it with 19 years of constant dark side training, experience, and an obvious increase in raw power, exacerbated due to the use of the dark side. Kang and Darth Vader both wield incredible power, though only one could win their fight. Vader is too slow and sluggish. I done this many time in several Anakin vs Vader threads. Darth Vader Killed Darth Maul's Clone. Also, if Luke could stalemate/match him, then it is a huge credit to him, not necessarily a loss to Vader, not to mention that it was a highly circumstantial fight in the first place. @wollfmyth209: That is when Vader turns back to th Light and became Anakin again... @sirfizzwhizz: I'd say Vader's feats are typically better except in the rare times Anakin achieves oneness. NO. Anakin is Vader but younger, less experienced, less powerful and less skilled. Definitely Anakin. And all this is obviously as far as we are using normal Anakin only, not his "Zonakin" self. #1 Edited By PerfectNazo Dark side Anakin from episode 3 against Darth Sidious from episode 3. Debunk. So Canon source > out dated legends source. You can't possibly expect me to agree on your or any other debater's opinions every single time, that is just ludicrous. Post all you want; it's just lately I narrowed down the people I'd be running in a loop with, and people I could actually have a proper debate with. But the truth is, when we see Anakin actually go all-out, he's rather powerful; exercising superiority over Dooku, utterly collapsing 30x90 meter domes, crushing massive spider-droids then knocking down and hurling a massive pillar, and moving CIS dreadnaughts as a padawan are all feats that come to mind. In Legends it was pretty obvious that he didn't like his new suit and anything that came with it so he would logically look at his former self as being "better". Pulls down a large Temple Statue, catching a heavy chunk of it to throw at a nearby door. Vader also by feats never fought the quality opponents his younger Anakin self has. At least he chose better in the end. Yes. I see no reason why someone with far more favourable circumstances and advantages than Luke(i.e. Rules. Legends is definitely Anakin at least in the force and has been noted on multiple occasions Iirc. Oh that's not what I'm saying. He stared at his reflection a long time. And if you don't want me to respond or hear my opinions, say so directly, I won't tag you then. Team 2. The idea was revisited in Charles Soule's Darth Vader comics, which appeared to show, yet again, Palpatine creating Anakin Skywalker. Darth Vader is easily the most iconic Star Wars villain of all time - but just how powerful is the Dark Lord of the Sith? He only beat it by cutting the feet off with a Saber. Vader of course! And my point isn't Anakin's potential being greater in the slightest. Plus Anakin is Vader, so Vader literally knows everything about him, the only thing Anakin has more than Vader is agility. Vader, sure his potential was limited, but unlike Anakin, he had far more time to reach it. Sure, there was a whole trilogy devoted to how he turned to the Dark Side, but Anakin was … Easy 200+ tons feat considering the weight of marble or granite statues. His wisdom, experience and knowledge certainly grew, but he's logically the inferior Force user[in terms of sheer magnitude], duelist and overall fighter. @darthduelist9: Well it's rather simple: Vader didn't just lose his potential, he lost a good chunk(over half) of his midi-chlorians. Once, as a Jedi, he had meditated to find peace. RELATED: Star Wars: The Dark Secrets Behind Darth Maul's Robot Legs, Revealed This Vader would have existed right after the Battle on Mustafar, so it would have been a redeemed Anakin Skywalker. Not sure what the point here is. 25 has decided to show us how Anakin came to be. From what I recall, Midi-chlorians are distributed evenly across cells. Only for the fact that he has great knowledge of young Anakin's fighting style. @kbroskywalker: I have no idea why you spam me with irrelevant junk, despite me already noting I will never respond because you're thick-headed, persistent, and your arguments are... well ComicVine mods will ban me if I use that word. He now was Darth Vader! Star Wars comic, Darth Vader No. All out: Vader for the majority, though every fight will be properly challenging. However, the numerous tragedies he suffered during his service to the Jedi Order in the Clone Wars took their toll on Skywalker, making the young knight desperate to find a way to protect his lover Padme Amidala. @shootingnova: Nope. Marvel's Darth Vader comics are finally letting the Sith Lord grieve Despite Darth Vader 's status as one of the biggest villains in pop culture, we don't really know a lot about him. Without the neural connection to his armor, he was conscious of the stumps of his legs, the ruin of his arm, the perpetual pain in his flesh. My point is his Force reserves, innate talent and overall raw power are simply portrayed as superior. “Darth Vader, the most powerful Sith Lord in the Galaxy” Palpatine also appears frequently in the comic book series Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith (2017–2018), written by Kieron Gillen and Charles Soule. Even Vader couldn't overwhelm Dooku near as quickly as Annie did. Anakin Skywalker's massacre of a Tusken Raider clan in Attack of the Clones foreshadowed his eventual descent to the Dark side, but it also made the Star Wars antagonist feared among the species. Several sources state how Vader cannot be the best at Form V anymore unlike his younger self. Anakin did so twice. Except unlike Luke, Anakin had far greater knowledge and experience as well TK feats. Palpatine also seemed to believe Vader's loss of potential was psychological and not physical. In the end there is no showing of a force barrier, and not a TK feat. Not to mention the loss of force potential is a lost of skill as well. @wollfmyth209: How do you define "Force reserves" then? My point isn't that it's a loss or a win for Vader, but that if someone with far less training and potential than Anakin could use his innate talent to challenge Vader on even footing, then Anakin should perform much better. Anakin at his best became one with the force twice, and overpowered Son and Daughter when tapping potential. It's why Vader lost to Luke. In all out of dueling? Read the facts. Show me Vader subduing via TK beings like the Son and Daughter, Anakin has. At least, in Legends. Oh thats right, its not. Anakin Skywalker was trapped in a similar paradox, trying to be good even though he was destined to become Darth Vader. @wollfmyth209: Isn't there a set amount of midi-chlorians per cell? Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker appears in seven of the live-action Star Wars films, the animated series The Clone Wars (including the film), Rebels, and the micro-series Clone Wars and Forces of Destiny. @wollfmyth209 What am I supposed to do then? So yes, if this was force only, and we exclude Anakin's high end feats, Vader wins. And Vader didn't just lose limbs; he got almost his entire body completely burned. Some of Vader's biggest and most intense moments take place in the books, comics, and TV shows that make up the rich galaxy of Star Wars. Mace or Yoda can match Anakin and hold him off while the other beats Dooku, and Grievous eventually beats Maul or dies. Darth Vader's life support system was disabled by Cylo IV and all of this happened inside his head. Retellings and media that does not further Anakin's story will not be counted. That Vader had actually another two decades to grow in Force power should put him noticeably ahead of Anakin as a Force user. (41BBY - 4ABY) (45 Years Old) This page is a chronological list of all his confirmed kills in Canon in all forms of official media. People need to deal with it. Canon and legends feats and accolades may be applied, @wollfmyth209@shootingnova@silver2467@darkdefender@zapan871@sirfizzwhizz@jedixman@dadivineking, So zen mode Anakin? Also Anakin is insane strong in legends by feats with plenty to match Vader. Yes. Round 3: All out. Someone requested that I do a comparison between Anakin and Vader in Star Wars Battlefront II to see if there are any similarities in their move sets. I'll concede on the quote for now. @geistalt: @wollfmyth209: what wolf said. Holistic intent can play a role in the overall scheme of things, as can statements, implications and other such facts as long as they keep true and consistent with the theme of the lore. Regarding the fight, what reasons do you have for Anakin being more powerful than Vader, other than the fact that Vader lost a chunk of his flesh? Vader was in the presence of Palpatine -- a confirmed DS nexus -- who was filling him with dark power at the time. Too bad Vader is stated to be in prime during Rebels, and not ROTJ. @kbroskywalker: Yep. Greater force potential led to greater skill and learning. Personally, I'd support Vader for all round. Vaders best feats are either slightly better, or on par. Does Anakin at his best beat Vader via force? ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. @wollfmyth209: Seems logical. Here many said Vader used TK to shield from the blast and collapse. That's why Sidious wanted him and not the crippled Vader that was left. I can show plenty of feats of TK on Vaders level. Even without potential arguments, Anakin's force feats and accolades is more than enough to keep from being overpowered by Vader. His first step is to obtain a crimson lightsaber, the signature weapon of the Sith. But honestly it's true that in legends it's pretty evident that whilst powerful, and superior in experience, technical skill, knowledge and precision as well as a tighter defense, Vader is unashamedly a shell of his former self and I can certainly see Anakin, with his superior speed, talent, reserves and unrelenting agression defeating his older self. Anakin wins the dueling round, though far from easily. Anakin tends to be sloppy when he's too angry. Nevertheless, even if we go by feats, he is clearly superior to Anakin, and a large number of these feats are decades before said prime of Vader. Spotted by Screen Rant, the comic reveals that Emperor Palpatine aka Darth Sidious personally made sure that Shmi Skywalker would get pregnant with Anakin via the manipulation of … Boomstick: After the transformation was complete, Anakin was Anakin no more. @lordofthelight: I think Wollf was referring to Anakin's ability to tap into his "Force reserves" that apparently leads to quick learning, full potential (briefly)... And turning into Zonanakin. But what do I know I'm more of a canon expert anyways. The only argument AGAINST Anakin is determining what feats are context base and which are not. Once Skywalker became Darth Vader he would be worshipped by the species, despite the Sith Lord's disdain for the Tusken Raiders.. If you are referring to the loss of raw power/potential, I am sure you are aware that Anakin never reached even remotely close to his full potential, by ROTS, and consequently, his raw power is nowhere close to what it could have been. 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